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Are We Passing Through An Unknown Energy Cloud In Space?


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#111
Harte

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Ok so what is the average velocity of Mesons?


Just like a baseball, it depends on the energy level of the meson in question.

Mesons have a rest mass, which indicates that they can be at rest.

So they don't have to have any velocity.

Harte
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
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Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. Bertrand Russell


Ubi dubium ibi libertas.

Gee, what a boring ass world it would be without the likes of us messed up whack job psycho arrogant motherfuckers who DONT BUY INTO EVERYTHING. Risata

Sometimes a shitty stick is just a stick covered in shit and not a Gubbermint plot to makes sticks useless to us. Grayson

#112
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THE FOUR FORCES

There's four different kinds of fundamental forces, but as we will see later some of them have been unified and it's thought that they are all the same force only in different "modes", but for the sake of simplicity we will first talk about them as different forces.

I'm just going tell you the different between: fermions and bosons and about virtual particles
FERMIONS AND BOSONS AND ABOUT REAL AND VIRTUAL PARTICLES

Bosons are the particles which transmits the different forces between the matter particles, they normally have a whole number spin, 0, 1 or 2. And Fermions which are matter particles they often have spin ½. Real particles are the ones you are familiar with, all Fermions are real particles. The Bosons can sometimes be virtual and sometimes real. Virtual particles are the particles which transmits the force between the particles, e.g virtual photon carries the electromagnetic force between e.g electrons. They are called virtual particles because they can't be directly detected, you can't 'see' them so to speak. But their effect can be noticed, by e.g the actual forces between particles.

The four forces are: the electromagnetic force, the weak nuclear force, the strong nuclear force, and gravity.

THE ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE

The electromagnetic force affects particles that have electric charge such as protons and electrons. this is the force that enables atoms to form by the electromagnetic attraction between the protons and the electrons which binds them together in atoms, kind of like gravity makes the earth and the other planets orbit around the sun. The forces have an infinite range. The particle that transmits the force is the virtual photons.

THE STRONG NUCLEAR FORCE

The strong nuclear force affects the quarks. the quarks have different colours, and different collared quarks attract each so they join together in protons and neutrons and protons and neutrons(or more precisely the quarks in the protons and neutrons, since the strong force only affects quarks) together in a nucleus. The carrier particle is the gluon(from the English word glue since it binds quarks together). This force is very short ranged.

THE WEAK NUCLEAR FORCE

This force is responsible for various kinds of radioactive decay. And it changes the flavour of particles. Its' force carriers are Z and W bosons.

THE GRAVITATIONAL FORCE

The gravitational force is different from the other forces for three main reasons. All the other forces affect only certain particles such as electron of quarks. But Gravity affect all different particles. And it's very weak, the weakest of all forces. But it makes this up by having, as the electromagnetic force, an infinite range and also the force can only be attractive( meaning that it can only pull things towards it). this has the implication that different gravitational sources can only add up to create a bigger source. This is different from the other forces which can be both attractive and repelling, so they can also reinforce each other to create a bigger force, but they can also cancel each other out making a weaker force.


THE UNIFICATION OF FORCES
It has been found that all the forces is really the same force but only in different 'modes'. To understand this you have to know about something called quantum foam, and virtual particles:
Quantum mechanics says that on the atomic level, your knowledge is limited. This means that you want to know more about one thing, you have to loose knowledge about another thing. This weighing also occur with energy and time. If you want to know the energy level of something better, you'll have to measure it under a longer time. This has the effect that energy levels can fluctuate up and down and the shorter time span the higher the fluctuations. So this means that particle(energy) can pop in and out of existence, and the shorter the time they exist, the higher energy they can have. So all around us particles come into existence and disappear. These particles are virtual, so as said above we can't detect them directly, but we can se the consequence of their energy.

This quantum feature affects the different forces. If we start with the electromagnetic and gravitational force.
The strength of those two forces gets weaker, the further away from the source you are. This can be understood, if you think about the carrier particle. The carrier particle is surrounded by all these virtual particles which disturbs and block out the force which the particle is transmitting. And the closer you get the less virtual particles is there in the way to block out the force, so therefore it should get stronger the closer you get.
The strong and weak force on the contrary gets stronger the further away you get from the source. the somehow use the virtual particles to strengthen their force, and the more particles in the way the stronger the forces gets.

So we have one force which grows at smaller distances and two which gets weaker. First we must remember that the electromagnetic and gravitational force is normally very weak forces and the strong and weak forces normally are very strong. Then it has been discovered that there's one levels(as we go to smaller and smaller levels the electromagnetc and gravitational force gets stronger and the weak and strong force get weaker) where the electromagnetic force should have gotten so strong, and the weak and strong forces have gotten so weak, that they all behave as the same force. But these small scales requires allot of energy, before they can make a difference. Therefore it requires very high temperatures before the forces start to act like one. Temperatures high as the temperature in the beginning of the universe. And it seems like all forces where one and the same in the beginning of the universe. But then as everything cooled of, they branched of one by one to create the different forces we see today.

But on second thought it should be said that they become almost as the same force but not quite.
For them to act as exactly the same force requires something called supersymmetry. supersymmetry means, that for every particle from one of the matter or force family, there is a corresponding particle from the other family but with half(½) a spin different. The problem is that for supersymmetry to work we have to have a hell of a lot more particles, since every particle at the moment doesn't have a symmetry partner.

http://www.physlib.c...our_forces.html


Hmmm, didn't they already answer that conundrum with "Virtual" particles showing up Johnny On The Spot AT NEED?

Come to the Light side. There's No Medals For Stumbling Around In The Dark Is There...Forgive The Darkside, For They Know Not What They Do.

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Wait Long Enough, People Will Forget What They Are About And Show Their True Side To You.


#113
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THE FOUR FORCES

There's four different kinds of fundamental forces, but as we will see later some of them have been unified and it's thought that they are all the same force only in different "modes", but for the sake of simplicity we will first talk about them as different forces.

I'm just going tell you the different between: fermions and bosons and about virtual particles
FERMIONS AND BOSONS AND ABOUT REAL AND VIRTUAL PARTICLES

The whole concept of virtual particles bugs the hell out of me. Either they are there or they aren't. Theorizing what causes a specific effect can be a whole lot of fun. At the same time it is far too easy for people to take the most logical concept according to "those who know" and create a subscience based on speculation. Just as it was accepted that the stars were holes poked in the blanket that God draped over the planet every night. Yes in the modern age they are going at things from a far more scientific angle. Instead of simply accepting that some particles simply exist and then don't, I think the point should be where do they go? It's like quantum fishing where every fourth fish once caught simply dissapears. Figure out a better way to catch the damn fish to where it doesn't dissapear.


Bosons are the particles which transmits the different forces between the matter particles, they normally have a whole number spin, 0, 1 or 2. And Fermions which are matter particles they often have spin ½. Real particles are the ones you are familiar with, all Fermions are real particles. The Bosons can sometimes be virtual and sometimes real. Virtual particles are the particles which transmits the force between the particles, e.g virtual photon carries the electromagnetic force between e.g electrons. They are called virtual particles because they can't be directly detected, you can't 'see' them so to speak. But their effect can be noticed, by e.g the actual forces between particles.

The four forces are: the electromagnetic force, the weak nuclear force, the strong nuclear force, and gravity.

THE ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE

The electromagnetic force affects particles that have electric charge such as protons and electrons. this is the force that enables atoms to form by the electromagnetic attraction between the protons and the electrons which binds them together in atoms, kind of like gravity makes the earth and the other planets orbit around the sun. The forces have an infinite range. The particle that transmits the force is the virtual photons.

And the Photons do this how?


THE STRONG NUCLEAR FORCE

The strong nuclear force affects the quarks. the quarks have different colours, and different collared quarks attract each so they join together in protons and neutrons and protons and neutrons(or more precisely the quarks in the protons and neutrons, since the strong force only affects quarks) together in a nucleus. The carrier particle is the gluon(from the English word glue since it binds quarks together). This force is very short ranged.

That is fascintaing, I'll do more research on Gluons.


THE WEAK NUCLEAR FORCE

This force is responsible for various kinds of radioactive decay. And it changes the flavour of particles. Its' force carriers are Z and W bosons.

Ok, why is there a "Weak" Nuclear, and a "Strong" Nuclear force? Are they truly two different things? Or as their names denote is it just a matter of the relative strength of the same force? Where is the dividing line? Or are they truly two different forces completely? At which point why are they named as such?


THE GRAVITATIONAL FORCE

The gravitational force is different from the other forces for three main reasons. All the other forces affect only certain particles such as electron of quarks. But Gravity affect all different particles. And it's very weak, the weakest of all forces. But it makes this up by having, as the electromagnetic force, an infinite range and also the force can only be attractive( meaning that it can only pull things towards it). this has the implication that different gravitational sources can only add up to create a bigger source. This is different from the other forces which can be both attractive and repelling, so they can also reinforce each other to create a bigger force, but they can also cancel each other out making a weaker force.

Sure, weak compared to the other forces that can be manipulated on our own miniscule level, Though without this weak all encompassing force would any of the others exist? Or atleast have the ability to be put into play? Which raises other interesting questions. If mass did not exist, would the forces themselves still exist, just without a trigger to show off their abilities. Or are the forces created by mass themselves?
One would think in life that the "weak" would be the easiest to control and manipulate. Though with physics that philosophy is flipped, The strongest are the easiest to control, the weak the most difficult.



THE UNIFICATION OF FORCES
It has been found that all the forces is really the same force but only in different 'modes'. To understand this you have to know about something called quantum foam, and virtual particles:
Quantum mechanics says that on the atomic level, your knowledge is limited. This means that you want to know more about one thing, you have to loose knowledge about another thing. This weighing also occur with energy and time. If you want to know the energy level of something better, you'll have to measure it under a longer time. This has the effect that energy levels can fluctuate up and down and the shorter time span the higher the fluctuations. So this means that particle(energy) can pop in and out of existence, and the shorter the time they exist, the higher energy they can have. So all around us particles come into existence and disappear. These particles are virtual, so as said above we can't detect them directly, but we can se the consequence of their energy.

And the particles go where? Any great mind hypotheticals out there to answer that question? I love the first line in this paragraph decrying how you have to disregard knwowledge of one aspect of physics to understand another. So much for unification.


This quantum feature affects the different forces. If we start with the electromagnetic and gravitational force.
The strength of those two forces gets weaker, the further away from the source you are. This can be understood, if you think about the carrier particle. The carrier particle is surrounded by all these virtual particles which disturbs and block out the force which the particle is transmitting. And the closer you get the less virtual particles is there in the way to block out the force, so therefore it should get stronger the closer you get.
The strong and weak force on the contrary gets stronger the further away you get from the source. the somehow use the virtual particles to strengthen their force, and the more particles in the way the stronger the forces gets.

So we have one force which grows at smaller distances and two which gets weaker. First we must remember that the electromagnetic and gravitational force is normally very weak forces and the strong and weak forces normally are very strong. Then it has been discovered that there's one levels(as we go to smaller and smaller levels the electromagnetc and gravitational force gets stronger and the weak and strong force get weaker) where the electromagnetic force should have gotten so strong, and the weak and strong forces have gotten so weak, that they all behave as the same force. But these small scales requires allot of energy, before they can make a difference. Therefore it requires very high temperatures before the forces start to act like one. Temperatures high as the temperature in the beginning of the universe. And it seems like all forces where one and the same in the beginning of the universe. But then as everything cooled of, they branched of one by one to create the different forces we see today.

But on second thought it should be said that they become almost as the same force but not quite.
For them to act as exactly the same force requires something called supersymmetry. supersymmetry means, that for every particle from one of the matter or force family, there is a corresponding particle from the other family but with half(½) a spin different. The problem is that for supersymmetry to work we have to have a hell of a lot more particles, since every particle at the moment doesn't have a symmetry partner.

http://www.physlib.c...our_forces.html


Hmmm, didn't they already answer that conundrum with "Virtual" particles showing up Johnny On The Spot AT NEED?


I noticed the unification or "God Particle" hanging around off stage waving, though was never formally introduced.
"I've got a silver spoon on a chain.. I've got a grand piano to prop up my mortal remains. I've got wide staring eyes. I've got a strong urge to fly!! But I've got nowhere to fly to."
-Pink Floyd

#114
StarLord

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Obviously, it was the Universe that came up with the concept "Find A Need & Fill It", first.

Come to the Light side. There's No Medals For Stumbling Around In The Dark Is There...Forgive The Darkside, For They Know Not What They Do.

We are Spiritual Beings Having A Human Consciousness Experience.


Wait Long Enough, People Will Forget What They Are About And Show Their True Side To You.


#115
dreamwalker

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So we are just going to call God "Universe" now? I'm ok with that. It might take some time for all the religions to catch on, though I see that it shall be.
"I've got a silver spoon on a chain.. I've got a grand piano to prop up my mortal remains. I've got wide staring eyes. I've got a strong urge to fly!! But I've got nowhere to fly to."
-Pink Floyd

#116
Harte

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Hmmm, didn't they already answer that conundrum with "Virtual" particles showing up Johnny On The Spot AT NEED?


No, and they not only don't appear "at need," they are real and have been proven to be so. A virtual particle is not a specific kind of particle. Depending on the energy "borrowed" from the universe, a virtual particle-antiparticle pair can, in fact, be any one of the known (or unknown) particles.

I noticed the unification or "God Particle" hanging around off stage waving, though was never formally introduced.



This is the Higgs boson. It is merely hypothetical because no evidence for it has been found. Since there's no evidence, it is unknown what its properties might be (if it exists,) other than a general outline of what the properties should be.

Harte

Edited by Harte, 19 April 2012 - 08:02 PM.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
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Gee, what a boring ass world it would be without the likes of us messed up whack job psycho arrogant motherfuckers who DONT BUY INTO EVERYTHING. Risata

Sometimes a shitty stick is just a stick covered in shit and not a Gubbermint plot to makes sticks useless to us. Grayson

#117
StarLord

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StarLord: "Hmmm, didn't they already answer that conundrum with "Virtual" particles showing up Johnny On The Spot AT NEED?"

No, and they not only don't appear "at need,"
No? And you know this how exactly?

they are real and have been proven to be so.
No Kidding??? IF you read the whole original post, the author was kind enough to go over the "Virtual" thingy, They're real, it's here and it isn't here. Pops in and out of existence. They know they are there even if they can't "see" them by the changes they cause in gravitation or electrical potentials/changes/swings/affects... were you doing the red pen O correction too quick on my use of the quotes and the word Virtual?


A virtual particle is not a specific kind of particle. Depending on the energy "borrowed" from the universe, a virtual particle-antiparticle pair can, in fact, be any one of the known (or unknown) particles.


"Quantum mechanics says that on the atomic level, your knowledge is limited. This means that you want to know more about one thing, you have to loose knowledge about another thing. This weighing also occur with energy and time. If you want to know the energy level of something better, you'll have to measure it under a longer time. This has the effect that energy levels can fluctuate up and down and the shorter time span the higher the fluctuations. So this means that particle(energy) can pop in and out of existence, and the shorter the time they exist, the higher energy they can have. So all around us particles come into existence and disappear. These particles are virtual, so as said above we can't detect them directly, but we can se the consequence of their energy. "
This is the Higgs boson. It is merely hypothetical because no evidence for it has been found. Since there's no evidence, it is unknown what its properties might be (if it exists,) other than a general outline of what the properties should be.

Harte


I disagree. What law states that there aren't even more Boson's that have not been identified yet? Theory states that the "Higgs" Boson is it's own antiparticle and it's interchangeable. Interesting isn't it, antimatter becoming matter and back again?

a "particle" is matter isn't it?

If chaos ruled Quantum Mechanics, the Physical Plane would have annihilated itself upon it's creation of all the late to the party particles. Clear cut order and design with an amazing tailored "come as you need" process to keep things moving along...

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. "Order UP!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you hang out in some of the nerdier websites (including this one), you probably couldn't help but get excited about yesterday's news regarding the Higgs Boson. If you somehow missed it, here's the breakdown.
As you probably know, one of the big goals –- arguably the big goal — of the LHC is to find the elusive Higgs Boson. The two biggest experiments in the Large Hadron Collider, ATLAS and CMS, announced their data updates yesterday. Both ATLAS and CMS have found a signal with relatively high significance suggesting that the Higgs Boson is real and that it has a mass of roughly 135 times the mass of a proton (or, to you experts, approximately 125 GeV). This is a big deal because 1) The Higgs Boson is the last undetected particle in the Standard Model of physics, and 2) The Higgs field is what gives other particles their mass.

I did a column a while ago about why discovering the Higgs would be so exciting, but surely you must have more questions. In fact, I know you do since we put out a call for questions yesterday and you guys posted andemailed dozens of questions about what it all means. Thanks to everyone who sent in questions.

I've consolidated some of the best and most probing questions about the Higgs for your reading pleasure, though I anticipate a spirited debate about a few of them in the comments section. Things can get a little technical, so besides the backgrounder on the Higgs, you may also want to take a look at Alasdair's field guide to subatomic particles.

Posted ImageCredit: ATLAS Collaboration.


Posted ImageCredit: CMS Collaboration.


Did they actually detect the Higgs?

Let me get this out of the way from the outset. By the standards of the particle physics community (and almost certainly by the standards of the Nobel prize committee) the Higgs hasnot officially been discovered. Why not? That takes a little explaining. This involves numbers, which means that the numerically squeamish may want to look away, and it also involves a few back-of-the envelope calculations so the mathematical experts may also want to look away.

I usually don't post data in my columns, but as you can see above, I've made an exception today. The two plots are from the ATLAS experiment and the CMS experiment, respectively. In each, the solid line is the data for different possible values of the Higgs boson mass (the x-axis). The dashed line is what you'd expect if there were no Higgs at a particular mass. The solid and dashed lines obviously don't match up. When you do an experiment, you don't expect to getexactly the null result (no Higgs) with every measurement. There's always a scatter.

If there were no Higgs, then approximately 95% of the time the solid line should be within the yellow curve. This is known, mathematically, as "2-sigma." You only have about a 2.5% of finding yourself 2-sigma above the null value by random chance. Both the ATLAS and CMS experiment have more than a 2-sigma result around 125 GeV (135 times the mass of the proton) in their data.

There are a few complications, however. For one thing, if you look at enough data you wouldexpect to see a few random fluctuations. Even after correcting for that, the ATLAS result is about 2.3 sigma and the CMS result is about 1.9. Alone, neither is such a big deal BUT (and here's the important point) since the results are independent, you get to combine them giving you a 3-sigma result, or only about a 1 in 700 chance of seeing a signal like this anywhere in the experiments. Provided the teams have been careful about their error analysis (and there's no good reason to suppose they haven't) this is a fairly convincing result. Let me put it this way: criminal convictions, which require proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" almostnever rise to this level of certainty.

But particle physicists like to be more careful before they say something has been officially "discovered." They normally demand a 5-sigma detection — with less than a one in a million chance of being wrong. It makes sense to set a high bar, but for my part, I'm convinced that the Higgs is real and that we know its approximate mass. The remaining work will be to make it official.

Oh, and one more thing. These results are totally consistent with the range limit found by the Fermilab Tevatron. They only saw a 1-sigma result, but combining all of it, the odds come to something like 1 in 1100 against seeing all three measurements by pure chance.

Are the results consistent with what we expected?

Yup. This is very much in line with what was predicted by the standard model. In that respect, it's kind of boring to see what you expect.

However, this Higgs mass would be a bit above what is typically predicted by supersymmetry, giving one hint that while the standard model of particle physics is correct, supersymmetry (or at least certain variants of it) may not be.

Why do we have to "create" the Higgs in order to detect it? I thought it was all around us, giving particles their mass.

There are a lot of things called "Higgs" but the two most relevant are the Higgs particle and the Higgs field. It's true that the Higgs field is all around us; it is the field that gives at least some of the particles mass. That's very much like saying that there is an electromagnetic field all around. A photon can be thought of as something like a congealed lump of the electromagnetic field. Likewise, the Higgs boson could be thought of as a lump of the Higgs field. The tough part is slamming particles together with enough energy to rip out one of those lumps, even for a short period of time.

There's another important point here. Even under the best of circumstances, we still don't actually detect the Higgs boson itself. What happens is that a Higgs is created and (like so many massive particles do) it decays into lighter particles; two photons for example. By measuring the energies of the photons, you could get the mass of the Higgs, but decays into photons are quite rare. More commonly, the Higgs decays into a bottom quark and an anti-bottom (not the same as a top!), but this is really tough to measure. It's all very indirect, you see, which is why "discovering" a particle like the Higgs doesn't quite mean what most people think it means.

If the Higgs field gives mass to other particles, how can it be so much more massive than a proton?

This goes back to the distinction between the Higgs particle and a Higgs boson. It's not like a Higgs boson is hiding inside a proton, for example. Rather, particles interact with the Higgs field, and the interaction creates energy. Just as E=mc^2, the effective mass created is m=E/c^2, where E is the energy of the interaction.

Energy and mass really are the same thing. If you don't believe me, consider this. Protons are made of quarks, but if you add up the masses of the individual quarks, they only add up to a per cent or so of the total proton mass. The rest is interaction energy. From the outside, you cannot tell the difference between "real mass" and mass with is really energy. There is no difference.

Why doesn't the Higgs field give mass to photons?

For one thing, it's not only the photon that gets off the hook, mass-wise, but also the gluon (the particle for the strong force), and (if it exists) the graviton. The real question might be, "Why do the W and Z bosons have mass, but not the other mediators?"

Once upon a time there were 4 particles carrying the "electroweak" force. Two of them were charged particles (which eventually became the W^+ and W^-), and two of them were neutral. In the very beginning, all four of them were massless. This was a long time ago, about the first trillionth of a second after the big bang. As the universe cooled, the interactions of these particleschanged, and the Higgs field was created. In many respects, it's kind of like an ice crystal forming when water drops below a certain temperature. The whole structure of the electroweak particles changed.

Remember, the Higgs field creates an interaction energy, but one way of thinking about it is that the 4 electroweak particles got "mixed-up" with the photon being the massless combination of the two old neutral particles, and the Z being the massive combination. In the end, three of these particles (the W^+, W^-, and Z) interacted with the Higgs field, giving them mass, and one of them, the photon.

There will be those of you who will point out that all I've done here is say the photon doesn't interact with the Higgs because that's how the mathematical model works. Yup. That's exactly what I've done, but I'm afraid in this case, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

I should mention that while the Higgs mechanism does describe how the W and Z particles get their masses, it doesn't really explain how the quarks and electrons get their mass. We assume that it's due to the Higgs, but we really don't know, and we really can't say anything predictive. With the W and Z particles, on the other hand, we're able to compute the ratio of the masses to insane precision.

Would discovering the Higgs tells us anything about gravity?

No. The Higgs doesn't tell us anything about how gravity works, but since gravity responds to mass, interactions with the Higgs field produces gravitational fields, as does any form of mass or energy. Not only doesn't the Higgs tell us about gravity, there's nothing in the standard model at all that includes gravity. Our current best theory of gravity is general relativity, and one of the big goals of physics is to figure out a way to unify gravity with the other forces.

Does the Higgs have an antiparticle?

Nope. An antiHiggs and a Higgs are one and the same. Some particles are their own antiparticles, but they have to be neutral charge, because antimatter always has the opposite charge of regular matter. Photons, for example, are their own antiparticles. There are no "antiphotons." The Higgs boson is the same way.

What's the practical impact of discovering the Higgs?

Practical? Who knows? Simply knowing how mass is generated for some particles doesn't really allow us to manipulate masses any more than understanding how gravity works allows us to build black holes. Remember the warnings about black holes being generated in the LHC? Yeah. That didn't happen.

Personally, I think basic science is worth doing for its own sake. But the question of why people should care is a good enough one that the Imperial College, London, has a contest for students asking this very question.

Of course, this being io9, I'm sure people will come up with doomsday devices built around the Higgs particle. Remember, though, that even if you make a Higgs, you don't get to keep it for very long. They break down in less than a quintillionth of a second.

Would discovering the Higgs mean the end of Physics?

Not a chance. For one thing, the Higgs only tells us, at best, about ordinary matter in the universe. We still don't understand much about dark matter or dark energy, which combined comprise about 95% of the total energy. Certain models of supersymmetry, which might have shed light on dark matter actually seem less likely now, which means that we have a lot of work to do.

While the standard model does a great job describing the unification of electromagnetism and the weak force, we still don't have a "Grand Unified Theory" which also combines the strong force. We don't know how any of these forces combine with gravity in a way that would allow us to describe the beginning of time or the centers of black holes in a useful way. We don't know why the parameters of the universe are what they are or why there are 3 sets of quarks, 3 sets of neutrinos, and 3 sets of charged leptons or even why neutrinos really have mass or why they are specifically left-handed. We just know, in all of these cases, that they are, and not why they are.

I could go on and on, but the point should be clear. If the Higgs mechanism is right then this simply means that we have found one piece of the puzzle — a useful corner piece, to be sure, but still just a piece. There's still lots to do.

http://io9.com/58678...the-higgs-boson

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#118
Harte

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The Casimir Effect:

In quantum field theory, the Casimir effect and the Casimir–Polder force are physical forces arising from a quantized field. The typical example is of two uncharged metallic plates in a vacuum, like capacitors placed a few micrometers apart, without any external electromagnetic field. In a classical description, the lack of an external field also means that there is no field between the plates, and no force would be measured between them.[1] When this field is instead studied using the QED vacuum of quantum electrodynamics, it is seen that the plates do affect the virtual photons which constitute the field, and generate a net force[2]—either an attraction or a repulsion depending on the specific arrangement of the two plates. Although the Casimir effect can be expressed in terms of virtual particles interacting with the objects, it is best described and more easily calculated in terms of the zero-point energy of a quantized field in the intervening space between the objects. This force has been measured, and is a striking example of an effect purely due to second quantization.[3][4] However, the treatment of boundary conditions in these calculations has led to some controversy. In fact "Casimir's original goal was to compute the van der Waals force between polarizable molecules" of the metallic plates. Thus it can be interpreted without any reference to the zero-point energy (vacuum energy) or virtual particles of quantum fields.[5]



Wiki
That last caveat refers to varying the boundary conditions to fit the facts to what Casimir was originally trying to do.

IMO, the virtual particle explanation ("quantized field") is the correct one because it's not dependant on playing with the boundary conditions.


The Casimir effect indicates the existence of virtual particles - causing what is called the "Quantum Foam."

Nothing that I know of says there can't be more bosons. Why does that matter?

There are a set number of hypothesized bosons that have been predicted, but that's just by current theory.

I'll admit that the theory itself hasn't changed much since the 1960's (quantum electrodynamics,) but that's no indication at all that they have everything nailed down.

For example - the Big Bang doesn't actually work under current quantum theory - higgs or no higgs,

Harte

EDIT: Wanted to add this link that has more info on virtual particles:
LINK.

H

Edited by Harte, 20 April 2012 - 02:32 PM.

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Gee, what a boring ass world it would be without the likes of us messed up whack job psycho arrogant motherfuckers who DONT BUY INTO EVERYTHING. Risata

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#119
dreamwalker

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"For example - the Big Bang doesn't actually work under current quantum theory - higgs or no higgs,"

Ok, I'll bite. Why?
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#120
Harte

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"For example - the Big Bang doesn't actually work under current quantum theory - higgs or no higgs,"

Ok, I'll bite. Why?


Because there's no way that inflation, without which the BB doesn't result in what we see, can have occurred in a continuous, flat way that would lead to our universe.
Note:

The self-perpetuating nature of inflation is the direct result of quantum physics combined with accelerated expansion. Recall that quantum fluctuations can slightly delay when inflation ends. Where these fluctuations are small, so are their effects. Yet the fluctuations are uncontrollably random. In some regions of space, they will be large, leading to substantial delays.


To be quantitatively precise, the word "some" above should be replaced with "an infinite number of." In an eternally inflating universe, an infinite number of islands will have properties like the ones we observe, but an infinite number will not. The true outcome of inflation was best summarized by Guth: "In an eternally inflating universe, anything that can happen will happen; in fact, it will happen an infinite number of times."



Because of quantum fluctuations, there is no way that the universe's "inflationary period" could possibly have ended all at once. This means that the universe is still undergoing this extremely, EXTREMELY rapid inflation elsewhere. In fact, in infinite elsewheres.



This we don't see, though it's just barely (BARELY) possible that we wouldn't see it if it was happening.

Good God this text editor is fried!

Source for the quote - a very interesting pdf on the matter at hand.

Harte
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
Thomas Jefferson

Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. Bertrand Russell


Ubi dubium ibi libertas.

Gee, what a boring ass world it would be without the likes of us messed up whack job psycho arrogant motherfuckers who DONT BUY INTO EVERYTHING. Risata

Sometimes a shitty stick is just a stick covered in shit and not a Gubbermint plot to makes sticks useless to us. Grayson




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