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Any Freemasons Here?

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#11
vamelungeon

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I've been a Freemason for 26 years.

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Welcome to CC.net, vamelungeon! We are glad to have your company!

#13
vamelungeon

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Welcome to CC.net, vamelungeon! We are glad to have your company!


Thank you! :)

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Hey KsigMason, whats up?

Just wanna say before i let er rip that i respect your choice of esoteric school and you as a person, you have a right to do whatever you want. NO HARD FEELINGS! Its just my style to be very fucking cut throat towards evil bastards like those who control masonry.. Gota give em what they dish out right!?

Just understand that I, like everyone who believes in the REAL brother/sister hood of men AND women, of ALL SHAPES, COLORS, AND SIZES hate secret societies getting in the way of an open and equal society. Freemasonry apitimizes this, thats why it takes subsequential heat. SIMPLE! SPECULATION ASIDE, there are far to many accounts to ignore of Freemasons abusing their status in society, because after all they look out for each other! When a Freemason man leaves his wife, he simply gets one of his Mason lawyer buddies to get the case in court with a masonic defense lawyer and a masonic judge and see to it that the mans finances are protected by the proceedings in court. Freemason lodges were originally popular in part because it allowed lawyers to network and advertise which is something they were not allowed to do. As a result, over time freemasonry has become the law, just as it was intended to be. An unseen government, a protestant arm of the catholic church. This is really one of the major reasons people become masons, nothing to do with the occult or spirituality! I know fairly large drug dealers who have asked me about masonry, wanting to join so they could put the bumper sticker on their cars and not get pulled over. Its such common knowledge. Its ignorance and conditioning that choose to turn blind eyes at this point my friend.

Q: Why don't we persecute other groups like we do the masons and co masonry rites?
A: NOONE ELSE DOES THOSE THINGS BESIDES THE SECRET SOCIETIES THAT TAKE THE HEAT FOR IT.

And that's not the accusation of just one school of thought, or just the conspiracy community...

"Some of the biggest men in the United States....are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. they know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive that they had better not speak above their breaths when they speak in condemnation of it" - Woodrow Wilson, 28th president of the United States.

"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings." John F. Kennedy, 35th president of the Unites States.

Now, who do you trust more? JFK, who got shot for how revolutionary he was? Or Masonry! A racist, sexist, culturally crass and outdated Babylonian cyrpto-fascist control machine of a belief system that treats society like a chess board?!

NO FUCKING BRAINIER.

I could end it here, but there's so much more, why ever stop? Its evil! Its such a benevolent thing to do, its as gratifying as beating Satan in the face with a bat and hearing the muffled cries of "Stop! Stop! I take it back!" and continuing with a toothy smile... or Sex with an angel, whichever comes first!

I mean Baphomet, and hocus pocus aside, lets just use cold hard common sense.

If i started a club with my little shit head buddies in the school yard..
- And we have passwords, and handshakes, and secrets we hold from members..
- Force them to pay to be a member like somthing out of Mormonism..
- Force members to take oaths swearing allegiance to the club and fellow members, over any other authority..
- Didnt let girls or black kids in?

I woulda gotten in DEEP shit.

The teacher woulda told me "let everyone play!" "dont keep secrets!", "you are no better than little timmy, he dosent need to be in your club to prove it, and hes no different because hes black so give him back his lunch money!" FOR ONCE, THE TEACHER IS RIGHT! That little shithead club i started gave me and my shithead inner circle, the ability to control the kids in the playground. Obviously on a much more crude level, this is what Freemasonry is about. Divide and conquer, if you will.

Freemasonry is obviously, as we all know, influenced by hermetica, egyptian and babylonian mystery, the great arcanum, gnosticism, etc, the list goes on. GUESS WHAT? LEARN ABOUT IT YOURSELF. I have no problem with the hermetic philosophy except for the part about "not casting pearls in front of swine". Freemasonry COMES HARD, for that. Why keep secrets about fucking hermetics? This is a major hermetic tenant, but its ridiculous. I actually think the hermetic principals are amazing philosophical axioms, teeming with truth, ultimately understandable completely to the laymen! I am the laymen! The Kybalion was a good read! Its far less complicated then all the bullshit people deal with in modern life. All the secrets of masonry have been blown wide fucking open, everyone knows about Coral Castle already. Plain and simple. You can learn so much more about everything the Freemasons teach BY YOURSELF, FOR FREE. WITHOUT THE BULLSHIT. Not all of it is bad. On the contrary, just like any school of philosophy, premeditated for control or not, it is very beneficial to study if you wish to expand your scope of understanding.

I don't even wanna get started with you about the pedophilia, and the satanism.. You've heard it before, and have obviously reasoned it into a neat little package for your convenience as a Freemason. So I wont try and get you unpacked. Just make sure you check your masonic baggage at the door next time i try and bring my black friend to a lodge meeting.
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#15
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"Of what value is anything to the solitary and those that live in misery and terror,
except the imagination."
Wallace Stevens (1879-1955), U.S. poet
"The Necessary Angel: Essays on Reality and the Imagination 'Imagination as Value'"

What's a 33rd Degree Mason? Do they really know and practice hideous and disgusting Luciferian rituals that are hidden from 'common Blue Lodge Masons'?

To Masons this is probably the most hilarious 'indictment' against the fraternity that they could ever see. In every lodge, at every meeting, there are found Masons who have joined the Scottish Rite and who have received their prestigious and HONORARY 33rd Degree. These men are nearly always the ones most active and involved in Freemasonry. They have labored for long years 'in the quarries' (as Freemasonic allegory would explain it) and any allusion that they're off dancing naked in the moonlight and/or whipping up spells to praise Lucifer are more absurd than any childish taunt. Claims that only the "top 5%" of Masons really know what's going on in this secret 'new world order/luciferian conspiracy', though, are a staple of anti-Masons who want to convince you of some horrific conspiracy. Sometimes the 'five percent' are identified as the 33rd Degree Masons but in other cases (like the claims of Roger "El Gato" Bullock), it's some amorphous group whose membership credentials haven't been categorized just yet.

When one looks critically at the membership of the Scottish Rite's 33rd Degree, it would seem to most people that it's the most unlikely group one would ever find out plotting to take over the world. Of course, conjecture and imagination are amazing things and any similarities between truth and the claim of world-dominating 33rd Degree Masons are often deliberately blurred by Masonic detractors. Tossing away mounds of provable and visible evidence that 33rds are not really different than any average grouping of senior and involved members of an organization, they'll instead concentrate on a single thing that they feel others will agree supports their theories.




Let's step back just a bit to explain how this '33rd' stuff came into play in the fantasies of anti-Masons.

There are three (Count 'em: 3) degrees of Masonry:

Entered Apprentice

Fellowcraft

Master Mason

When one becomes a Master Mason he has received the highest degree in Masonry.

This fact totally confounds those outside of Freemasonry who believe that when they see a higher numbered degree, it must mean that a person is somehow 'superior' in rank.

That is simply NOT TRUE!

In fact, there's NO RANKING in the number system whatsoever - except that in order to become a 2nd Degree Mason, you must first be a 1st Degree Mason - etc. However, a person who has received the 12th Degree of the Scottish Rite degree system is not particularly 'higher' in rank or stature: they've just received MORE DEGREES. If one becomes a Mark Master Mason in the York Rite system, they've received an additional degree. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less.

Of course, those who love conspiracies will argue that those non-33rds simply don't know what's going on. 1

But back to the discourse:
Scottish Rite - a concordant organization which is part of the 'Masonic family' - has an degree system consisting of thirty-two degrees. The first three of those are only conferred by 'Scottish Rite Craft Lodges' of which there are very, very few worldwide - with most unrecognized.1 The 4th through the 32nd degrees (all of which have names that vary from Scottish Rite Jurisdiction to Scottish Rite Jurisdiction) are conferred upon those who make application AND PAY TO RECEIVE THEM!

Why don't Masons just use the NAMES of the degrees rather than numbering them? Well, sad to say, the memory power of Freemasons really isn't very different than the rest of the population. That microchip that's implanted secretly during some ceremony doesn't really enhance memory so when someone says, "Quick! What's the name of the 27th Degree of the Scottish Rite of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction?" there'll be lots of stumbling. Baskin-Robbins had 31 Flavors: could you name all of them? In order? I don't think so....

Yes, conspiracy fans everywhere: while we hate to burst your 'bubble', it's really a simple fact that throughout the United States (the location of that vaunted "Mother Supreme Council"), one simply signs a petition and hands in a very reasonable amount of money (cash, check or credit card!) and they're on their way to being a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason at the next degree class. While some parts of the world have time and service limitations for each individual degree in the series causing perhaps a 10 year delay from beginning to end, in the United States you can walk into a high school auditorium or some other location where the conferrals are being held and, after a suitable luncheon break, leave in the late afternoon having all of the 'secrets' of the 4th through the 32nd Degrees of the Scottish Rite.

WOW!
The 33rd ("and last") Degree of the Scottish Rite is an honorary degree, conferred for exceptional service to Freemasonry.

Because there are so few who receive this recognition and because people frequently misunderstand, thinking that those who've received this honorary degree are somehow 'elite', the mythos of power around the 33rd Degree has developed.

We must admit, there are understandable reasons for the confusion:

The York Rite Bodies (the other major concordant body of Masonry) are not 'unified' in the way Scottish Rite is; that is, York Rite is broken into four (in some places, three) 'groupings' and a member is free to stop at the conclusion degree of any of those 'groupings'. Many do. Scottish Rite, however, assumes a progression from their first (4th) degree through their final (32nd) degree and often offer all in a 'class' setting which ensures all degrees will be conferred on all candidates with none stopping at, for example, the 18th. Thus, the highest award for the Scottish Rite Bodies has no publicly recognizable comparison at the Knight Templar level of the York Rite (although certainly their recognitions are no less meaningful to the York Rite member recipient).


The recipient of the 33rd Degree, being rightly proud of the distinct honor, would append that after his name in virtually all Masonic communication. It was thus seen regularly amongst those considered the 'leaders' of Freemasonry. This was reinforced by the fact that a 33rd would regularly and proudly wear a ring emblematic of that distinction (shown above) which caused yet another noticeable distinction from (as non-Masons might perceive it) 'run of the mill' Masons.


Masons themselves would sometimes refer to this or that person as being a "33rd" - thus creating an air of 'power' surrounding the degree. In fact, during the lifetime of Albert Pike as Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern (US) Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, he actively promoted the organization by 'honoring' many of those in Masonic leadership in order to give his own organization far greater visibility than it might have otherwise achieved. Historians will note that this was the 'golden age of fraternity' and everyone wanted to accumulate degrees. What better than a large NUMBER of them?


And finally, it is normal to assume that a degree numbered 33 would be 'higher' than one numbered 3. Disclaimers by Freemasons notwithstanding, the common perception of 'rank' achieved simply by the numbering of degrees is often difficult to overcome.


What has this led to? A mythos of great proportions in some minds, with 33rd Degree Masons either alone or in league with others (the imagined Illuminati, the Bildeburgers or, in the case of David Icke, reptoids from outer space) to be in some kind of power elite.

We've taken one example from the website of an anti-Mason fixated with a hatred of US federal authority and attempting to prove a point using local information. His claims are not unlike many, many others; it's all the same tired rhetoric:


"Many who have actually been involved in the Masonic lodge and their offshoots often claim
(Masonicinfo Note: It would certainly help if just once someone would provide the names and the actual recorded quotes from these many folks who supposedly have been 'involved' and who're making these claims ostensibly so very often (yet are unknown to Masonic researchers). In reality, the only person we know was claiming that bizarre things happened with 33rds described himself as a 33rd Degree Mason but in reality was not: Jim Shaw who - in reality - lied about his stature as such and never received the 33rd Degree! Are there any others? We've yet to see them.)

that after the 33 degree of the lodgeís ritualism a person steps into more heightened state of awareness of their actual involvement in the Illuminati control and their various steps and organizations that lead up to the upper echelons of the people who hold the reigns of power and money and who are in the actual process of taking over and controlling the entire world.

(Masonicinfo Note: Aha! The Illuminati. That's got to be it. Those 33rds are all automatically part of some OTHER group! Now if only someone could just produce that Illuminati for us....)

A lot of these people who have quit the organization, without going further, claim the vast majority in the organization below the 32 degree arenít aware of what is actually going on.

(Masonicinfo Note: Does this sentence make any sense? A lot of _what_ people? The Masons? The 33rds? The Illuminati? And where are these people? As stated before, the only person who claims to have been a 33rd and left was Jim Shaw. He never once mentioned any kind of Illuminati world control even in the fantasies he or his co-author might have had about his being a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite member!)

Itís no secret the Masonic organizations use various and well-known occult symbolism in their strange, mysterious and hidden ritualism and in times past they have threatened and others reveal have actually killed and otherwise financially destroyed people who have revealed their secrets. Many former Freemasons have vigorously stated this.

(Masonicinfo Note: Claims that Freemasonry uses occult symbolism are false to fact. If the ritualism is hidden, how do these non-Masons ever know about it? Hyperbole about deaths and threats are simply foolish. Perhaps one should ask the author of this piece for a few names of these imagined 'former Freemasons'?)

We've here snipped the rest which involved some ranting about the roots of Freemasonry in Georgia since it's somewhat irrelevant to the issue of 33rd Degree Masonic power. It speaks of Freemasonry in 1735 and 1786 when there was no such thing as the Scottish Rite in the US!


Bottom Line: Those who've received the 33rd Degree of the Scottish Rite are Masons who have been honored by the Scottish Rite through receiving this honorary degree. They do not, however, rule the world nor do they rule Freemasonry.
An oft-overlooked (or deliberately ignored) fact is that a Grand Master of Masons is the supreme authority within his jurisdiction during his term of office. While it would be very highly unlikely that a Scottish Rite Body would be engaging in any acts that were un-Masonic, nevertheless if it were to occur, the Grand Master could simply order the body closed and forbid any Masons within the geographical boundaries of his jurisdiction (whether they were members there or not) to participate in any of their events. He could, should he choose, even require that every one of the Masons in his jurisdiction renounce their membership. Because Scottish Rite membership is predicated on Masonic membership (a member losing their good standing in a Craft Lodge, either through suspension for non-payment of dues or expulsion) automatically loses Scottish Rite membership.



An interesting footnote to prove the above point: in 1988, the Grand Master of Washington, DC removed the privileges of Freemasonry from the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite. Both of them were 33rd Degree Scottish Rite members, by the way. You can read about that here (go down to the middle of the page).
NOW, if the Sovereign Grand Commander of the 'Mother Supreme Council' - Albert Pike's titular successor - was as all-powerful in Freemasonry as some anti-Masons would have you believe, how could such a thing have occurred? Because, simply, the anti-Masonic crowd are wrong in their assumptions!

A 33rd Degree Mason has NO power in Freemasonry greater than that of the Grand Master of the jurisdiction in which he resides - no matter WHAT his title. If a Grand Master issues a ruling, it applies to the entire Masonic fraternity on which membership in the Scottish Rite, Shrine, and all branches of the Masonic 'family' derive their membership!

And the Grand Master is regularly elected to office from among the membership....

Kinda blows up the whole theory of this conspiracy cabal, don't you think?


And doesn't it seem reasonable that with all the Grand Masters in the world, just ONE might get a bit upset that he wasn't the prime Director of World Control - and 'spill the beans'?

Think about it, honestly, and you'll see just how ludicrous this charge of 33rd Degree Masonic control really is....




About those rings:
We often receive inquiries from folks who've come across a ring with a symbol inside a triangle and some writing inside. it's the official ring of the Scottish Rite Mason. It is a plain band of gold, about 5/16th of an inch wide. On it is an equilateral triangle, enclosing the letter yud, the initial of the Name of Deity in Hebrew. It's circular shape symbolizes unending commitment and loyalty just as it does in a marriage. The triangular plate and the letter signify that that commitment is to the Deity. Traditionally, the inside of the ring bears the inscription Virtus junxit mores non separabit, "Whom virtue unites, death will not separate."

For many years in at least one Scottish Rite jurisdiction, such rings were given to each and every Mason who'd received his 14th Degree. The cost of the ring was included in the cost of receiving the degrees (also included in the 'package' was "Morals & Dogma" by Pike). With the increase in gold prices, however, this practice has been discontinued. There are, though, many of these rings still around, tucked into drawers or in old jewelry boxes.

To the right is a more fanciful ring, created commercially, that shows not only the Scottish Rite 14th degree emblem but other Masonic emblems as well and contains the inscription inside as well.





1 A brief but necessary footnote: There are, in some places in Continental Europe (France primarily), unrecognized Grand Lodges whose Degree system is ENTIRELY that of the Scottish Rite. In these instances, EVERY degree (1-33) comes under the aegis of their (unrecognized) Scottish Rite system. In these cases, 33rd Degree Scottish Rite members do have significant authority within the lodge since that is their entire system of operation. Let it be clearly understood, however, that these are UNRECOGNIZED organizations and their members would not be admitted to a lodge meeting anywhere else. See our page on recognition for more to do with this sometimes confusing aspect of Freemasonry. Suffice it to say, your Masonic lodge down the street does NOT work in this way. The Master Mason degree is the highest Masonic Degree one receives and the presence at a meeting of someone holding the 33rd Degree of the Scottish Rite is likely no more of concern than someone wearing a pair of black pants.




Those who are 'Religious Intolerants' love to smear those whom they (without even a modicum of theological training) have determined to be preaching a 'false doctrine'. Regardless of their accomplishments in winning souls over to Christ, the work of Rev. Billy Graham, Robert Schuller and others are constantly being cited by anti-Masons as.... Masons! Nearly always, the claims are that they're 33rd Degree Masons and yet, not a single one of the 'Liars for Jesus' crowd ever seems able to produce a shred of evidence to support their claims. They'll argue that it's a "secret".... and yet, to anyone even vaguely familiar with the Scottish Rite, nothing could be further from the truth (or funnier!).

While the nomination of a man to receive the 33rd Degree in the Scottish Rite Bodies is not revealed until his election, at that time it becomes a matter of public knowledge and pride. Because there are limitations on such honors, obviously not everyone nominated for honor will receive it. Just as ANY organization would do when selecting, for example, their "Member of the Year", until such time as the decision is made, the names of those involved are private.

Once the election is held, ALL honorees are publicly announced and notice of that announcement is sent to the individual, to his Scottish Rite Body, and is even published in the records of that year's annual meeting, copies of which are sent to ALL Scottish Rite bodies within that Jurisdiction, to serving Scottish Rite Deputies and Active Members, and to other Scottish Rite Jurisdictions around the world - as well as to Masonic libraries all of which are open to the public. In addition, they're generally available for sale to anyone who wishes a copy.

But it doesn't end there!
While the ANNOUNCEMENT of the award is made in one year, the actual award itself is normally not presented until the following year! Thus, during the intervening period, newspaper announcements, listings in various Masonic publications, and more will occur. The following year, the named honorees attend the Scottish Rite's Annual Meeting where they are invested with the rank and honor of a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite member.

Masons are well aware of such publicity and accordingly, they'll rarely give a second thought to the concept that a 'secret' 33rd was conferred. The fact is, it just doesn't happen.

Look closely when someone makes claims about 33rd Degree Masons. Demand PROOF! When they say that so-and-so is a 33rd Degree (Scottish Rite) Mason, ask them to refer to a picture of that person receiving the award, wearing a Scottish Rite ring, or show a listing of the person in the Yearbook for that SR Jurisdiction. What we know you'll find is a lot of back-peddling, statements about it being a 'secret' ceremony, or foolishness with which they'll try to obfuscate the fact that it's simply made up silliness.

Page updated 25 August 2004 with a couple of typos fixed 9 Aug 2005. A little added in April, 2007.

http://www.masonicin...m/33rdsrule.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My father has that ring. He earned it the hard way. Much of making the grades, from one level to the next depending on who your guide is, is based on memorization. You have to memorize a ton of stuff. If you will, look at it like having to memorize one of Kiplings poems. The Masons, contrary to popular misinformation are not evil, have no interest in taking over anything except them selves and developing a deeper understanding in Spirit and basicly how God presents itself in each and every living being. Imagine the difficulty in seeing God in a alcoholic that lives on the street busy with drinking himself or herself to death, their only care the next bottle of Ripple.

My father is an alcoholic. He managed to stop drinking for 20 years and got ahead in his career. Made leaps and strides and rose to the top, then began drinking "just wine". Eventually it morphed into hard stuff. If you are not careful, the bottle can drink you. As far as I was concerned, he earned it because he was retired and had gone so far in his career.
He's in a Home now. He suffers from severe dimentia and Alzheimers. (possibly due to water on the brain, who knows)
I thank Spirit that he's not 100% aware all the time what has happened to his mind because he had one of the finest minds and memories I have ever ever experienced.

I'm familliar what some people refer to as "Evil", I'm familliar the Negative force, negatine energy the dark side. Neither my father nor his fellow Masons and Knights of Malta etc, etc.. are channels for that force. It's unmistakeable, and damn near impossible to hide the fact, even when you think you are pulling it off. Ever try to hide something from your wife or husband? The harder you try the more powerful you make the vibes to be felt.

Boy Scouts are a fraternity. OA, or Order of the Arrow is a fraternity and we/they have tons of secrets. Probably meant to stir up intrest to get other Boy Scouts to join. Are the Boy Scouts evil?

Non Masons only know what other Non Masons speculate about. If you really wanted to know, join the Masons. I suspect that if you do so, at first you may see it as another religion. That which brings you closer to Spirt can't possibly be Evil.

Come to the Light side. There's No Medals For Stumbling Around In The Dark Is There...Forgive The Darkside, For They Know Not What They Do.

We are Spiritual Beings Having A Human Consciousness Experience.


Wait Long Enough, People Will Forget What They Are About And Show Their True Side To You.


#16
MajorUrsaNorte

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Well done Star. Well done.

Moonchild, I am a Mason. My Step-Father was a Mason and my Grandfather was a Mason. Those men were pillars of their communities and Patriarchs of their families. They never once displayed any of the "evil" you ascribe to Masons. They were loving men that taught fairness and respect, pride in your work and committment to your obligations. They were extrordinary in the most humble of ways and they were both HUGE moral and ethical influences in my life.

You certainly have the right to your opinion, but unless you present facts to prove your thoughts, opinion is all you will ever have.

Like Star said, if you wish to know the truth, ask to be a Mason. Yes, YOU have to be the one to ask. Masons don't recruit and even if you do ask, you must be vouched for before you are allowed through the doors.

As an aside, I am an Eagle Scout and member of the Order of the Arrow and I can tell you this, there is more secrecy involved within OA than I have encountered within the Masons. Maybe it is because mystery and showmanship is required to keep the attention of young men in Scouting, who knows.

Attack all you want, but remember that firing blanks, no matter how many you shoot, can't equal even one single live round. The truth will get you every time.
Be Prepared,
Keep your powder dry,
And always remember,
The smoker you drink, the player you get.

#17
moonchild420

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Well done Star. Well done.
You certainly have the right to your opinion, but unless you present facts to prove your thoughts, opinion is all you will ever have.

Like Star said, if you wish to know the truth, ask to be a Mason. Yes, YOU have to be the one to ask. Masons don't recruit and even if you do ask, you must be vouched for before you are allowed through the doors.

As an aside, I am an Eagle Scout and member of the Order of the Arrow and I can tell you this, there is more secrecy involved within OA than I have encountered within the Masons. Maybe it is because mystery and showmanship is required to keep the attention of young men in Scouting, who knows.

Attack all you want, but remember that firing blanks, no matter how many you shoot, can't equal even one single live round. The truth will get you every time.


The truth WILL set you free. JFK told the truth. Thats why hes dead! *DINGDINGDING!*

Lots of hot air, but no meat and potatoes. You both failed to answer me at all, one of you just copied and pasted a masonic website. How persuasive. Very unbiased as well i might add. :rolleyes:

Major, i never knew your father, obviousley i don't know your family. I'm sure their nice, cool people though.
My grandfather was a civil engineer in Zambia for the British government. He never became a mason although he was APPROACHED by masons, and ASKED (yes, you heard me. I'm aware masons "don't recruit") to join. He Declined, because he lived in England half his life, and knew about Masonry. He declined because he knew that it wasn't genuine, God rest his soul he was a smart man. To this day, my mom who works for the Canadian government, takes my grandfathers good word on that. I trust my family and close friends more than anything.

BUT that means shit to you, so i shouldn't have even said it. ITS SUBJECTIVE, IT MEANS SHIT.
Why bring up family members, and personal experiences? Not usable for anything in real debate. If were looking to have an ego measuring contest, maybe.

I just quoted US presidents who admit to the NWO. Thats my case closed, Thats fucking incredibly damageing to your claims. No where to run from that. All i gota do now is link the NWO and evil to the top of masonry. Not hard.

There is plentty of HARD, COLD, evidence youve methodically ignored. Just because you dont see it at the lodge you go to, or based on personal experiance.. i mean, that dosent mean anything. Look at history, look at the world as it is, use that as evidence. I mean i went to university for political science, i know how the principals of evidence work, and i know what means jack shit when somone mentions it in debate. Theres no imagination here, just eyes and ears my friends.

I SAID CLEARLY, THE ARMCHAIR PHILOSOPHERS AT THE LOCAL MEETING, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GOVERNMENT, CONTROL OR EVIL.

That's for damn sure, i never insinuated you or any of your lodge buddies sacrifice goats or worship the devil. THAT'S FUCKING FUNNY, im nowhere near that stupid. I mean considering Jesus is symbolically sacrificed every sunday at mass, i think people are pretty weathered to the concept of sacrifice. Almost every human civilization has done it in one way or another, from south america to africa, it dosent freak anyone out too much... Now that thats outa the way..

Masonry for the MOST part is a ferternaty that pushes hermeticism. Nothin wrong with that. Masonry is a club, its not even hard to get into i could go be one right now. All kinds of people belong to masonry... However...

"When one looks critically at the membership of the Scottish Rite's 33rd Degree, it would seem to most people that it's the most unlikely group one would ever find out plotting to take over the world." - Starlord

Who is the patroness of masonry? The Queen of England. THEY ROYAL FAMILY HAS ALREADY TAKEN OVER THE WORLD, REMEMBER PAX BRITANIA? Verrrrry likley candidates for evilarchy involved with masonry. Stick a fork in ya, your done! Those are the masons i mean.

ESTABLISHED: Link between Masonry, and The Royal Family. Evil people. My point is proven, Case closed.

What country and royal family rulled the world by the barrel of a cannon, killing and enslaving the innocent for wealth?

Who commanded that? The Royal family of Britan, of course of course!

THE WORLDS MOST POWERFUL MASONS, AND SOME OF THE MOST CONTROL HUNGRY POEPLE EVER TO EXIST.

I mean this is so simple..
Who founded America? MASONS. the exact number of which is debatable, but General Washington, your first president was. Has America shown signs of being evil? Does a sweedish girl look good in tight leather?

Who did America have to go to war with for independance? ENGLAND.
And you mean to tell me Americans take oaths to that organization?
YOUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN FOUGHT THESE TYRANTS FOR INDEPENDANCE TO THE BITTER DEATH AND POOR BURRIAL THEY ACCEPTED WITH HOPES THAT THIER COUNTRY WOULD ONE DAY BE FREE. AND THATS HOW YOU REPAY THOSE WHO DIED?
By joining Queenies little club?
Such disrespect for the glorious dead, my friends. For what?

I mean for god sakes, The Duke of Kent is your "GRAND MASTER"...
I wouldent even reffer to my dominatrx as my "Grand Master".
Thats way too much power for one person in a title.

Even if that title means nothing
(and i dont see why it means nothing, you dont call someone your master for no reason, but anyways..),
WHY AS AN AMERICAN, WOULD YOU EVER CALL THIS CRUSTY OLD FUCK YOUR "GRAND MASTER"? HES ENGLISH! What happened to you America? I thought you guys had guts. Where's your sense of independance in belonging to this organization? Whats so special about being in a secret club, ran by the royal family? Not much its just kinda of fucking lame and evil.

Even if its not evil, (and youd have to undo a lot of history to make that true) thats just fucking stupid to belong to that kind of club, Especially as an American who owns guns a la the first amendment to protect your self, FROM ENGLAND. It makes no sense.

NOT TO MENTION YOU HAVENT ADRESSED THE RACISM, CLASSISM AND SEXISM INVOLVED WITH MASONRY. WHY BELONG TO SUCH AN ORGANIZATION? Why are they discriminatory? No clue.

"Imagine the difficulty in seeing God in a alcoholic that lives on the street busy with drinking himself or herself to death, their only care the next bottle of Ripple."

Thats quite easy for a lot of poeple. Christian, Bhuddist, atheist or none of the above. You just have to have empathy. Its not hard, and you dont need masonry for it... If you do you might be a bit of jerk.

I mean look at the Federal reserve, look at the constant war, look at the economy, look at the depravity in society, If you really believe this is what 'God' is capable of without any sort of manipulation, than all hope is utterly lost. Kill yourself now! Because if this is how humans behave and organize themselfs without a negative stimulus, were not worth the paper were writen on. However we are able to clearly see the ways in which we are manipulated. Corruption is everywhere, its become the most drab of cultural continginceies. Look at the catholics and jesuits! Look at the UN! This is a political phenomena. Masonry is obviously not all, but deffinatly is a part of it. Theres no way it isnt so long as the royal family are at the top of Masonry, nothing you say will convice me other wise.. The Queen herself is even weary of the reputation masonry has earned. In an era where the crown is despratley trying to apear like it has modernized to avoid critisizm, The Queen, although she is Grand Patroness, she spoke out against the formation of the Royal Household lodge. This is because she knows, just like everyone in england with half a fucking brain, that masonry has earned by deed, a malicious reputation or being a secret cabal where the rich help the rich. The press simply isnt good for a number of good reasons.

Unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt the royal family isnt evil (and have fun undoing the last hundred plus years or so in the process), anything you say can and will be used against you in hell! *cranks AC/DC*
\m/ ^_^ \m/

Edited by moonchild420, 17 April 2009 - 12:02 AM.

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#18
Nitesister

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No wonder it's noisy in here, the volume switch is set to 11! :P

Welcome to CC.net, moonchild420.
Please feel free to offer your opinions on any topic, but I would like to remind you that we have several members here who are also masons and it is not OK to flame their beliefs any more than it would be to flame them for their religion or race.
Please contribute in a respectful manner, that way people will be more inclined to actually read what you have to say! :D

When you have time, our forum rules are here: http://www.conspirac.......;f=154&id=8

#19
MajorUrsaNorte

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Moonchild, what is the point in debating on this subject if you won't take information from actual Masons or their public records as factual? You excise out the other side of the argument and place all of your information up on a pedestal as the shining example of truth. That is not debate, that is simply character assassination.

Its cool, you can hate Masons and keep right on thinking that every one of us bow down and kiss the Queen's foot all you like. It is clear in your posts that nothing I or any other Mason present contra to your argument will be given any credence.

So have at it brother. Knock yourself out. Ignorance spoken louder does not make it any less ignorant.
Be Prepared,
Keep your powder dry,
And always remember,
The smoker you drink, the player you get.

#20
moonchild420

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Sorry Nitesister, i can get a little carried away sometimes! Ill keep the passion to a minimum! lol Thanks for the welcome none the less!

I say your the one who's ignorant, but we could go back and forth on that all day.
So i think i better apologize for coming on a little strong as i can see I've peeved you off, I'm sorry.
If were going to be civil with each other i understand it will take maturity on my part, but on yours as well.

JFK was a true American hero, his assassination would be the proof in the pudding.

I NEVER MADE THAT A SHINING EXAMPLE OF THE TRUTH, IT JUST IS. SORRY.

That is not ignorance.

As for the whole kissing the queen thing.. HAHAHAHA. AGAIN, NOT THAT STUPID. Dont worry my firend.

SYMBOLICALLY you do, by calling that crusty old bastard the Duke or Kent your "Grand Master". Go ahead, marginalize that, its true. Stop being a mason if you dont wish to symbolically kiss the Queens foot. Every time you enter a lodge you do. That might mean jack all to you, and for your own protection from yourself im sure it does. But the Royals get off on symbols, hard.. So do masons.. I think thats pretty much their game. Masonry venerates symbols, the Queen being one. Proofs in the pudding!

And isn't assassinating Masonry's character part of my job as the person who believes based on a lot of hard facts, that masonry is not a good thing?

Don't accuse me of that, you don't need to. I AM assassinating masonry's character as its fun, benevolent and easy to me, and that's the only way how you can show it to be disingenuous. That's the only purpose for the existence of my argument, to criticize and assassinate masonry's character because i believe it deserves it. Sorry if i offend you, but you offend me. lol! Takes two to tango!

"Ignorance spoken louder does not make it any less ignorant." - Major

I accuse you of that good sir. Read em and weap :D


"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."
A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933



"The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes."

Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952




"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system ,they will rule the future."

U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: With No Apologies.




"The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans. "

British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, 1876 (THAT ONES A DOOZEY!)


"From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

Winston Churchill, stated to the London Press, in l922


"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Woodrow Wilson,The New Freedom (1913)


"We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent."

Statement by Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member James Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950


"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."

David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations (HAHAHAHAHA!!!!)

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."

Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets



"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an "extraterrestrial" invasion], whether real or *promulgated* [emphasis mine], that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."

Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991




"The statement went on to say that the spiritual teachings of religion must become the foundation for the new world order and that national sovereignty must be subordinate to the higher moral law of God."

American Institute of Judaism, excerpt from article in The New York Times (December 1942)


Before you read this one, know that im aware that brother Hall was a good mason.

NOT ALL MASONS ARE EVIL, MONEY HUNGRY, OLIGARCHS. BUT THERE OBVIOULSEY ARE SOME THAT ARE.

THATS WHO IM AFTER.

IM AWARE THAT PEOPLE MISINTERPRET A LOT OF WORKS AND STATEMENTS BY OTHERWISE GOOD MASONS, WHO NEVER HURT A FLY.

Brother Hall died an old man at 99. He wasent evil, A VERY WISE MAN, he gave lectures at the Philosophical Research Society whenever he had the strength too. Not the type of person who was involved with the NWO.. He did know quite a lot about masonry however, and this quote serves my agenda in proving masonry is involved in clandestine statecraft thats all.

"Not only were many of the founders of the United States government Masons, but they received aid from a secret and august body existing in Europe which helped them to establish this country for A PECULIAR AND PARTICULAR PURPOSE known only to the initiated few."

Manly Palmer Hall, 33rd degree mason. exerpt from "The Secret Teachings of All Ages."

"The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the Americans' freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight." - JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY.

:rolleyes:

I could go on but i think you all get it by now.. I mean i made none of that up. Its all true, so i like believeing it.

Im not ignorant, youve heard it from sources that AREN'T BIASED. Straight from the mouth of the horse.. Instead of beating a dead horse i should just post this already.. Sorry for being so direct, i can see how it offends. But your beliefs and my beliefs are probably closely related. We both believe in love, charity, helping our fellow people. I'm sure despite our disagreements on this, we will be able to have sound and credible debate in the future. Im sure we both enjoy a good debate, right? Were just diametrically opposed, completely polarized on this issue. The hostility is a natural factor in a heated empassioned debate between two people who are convicted. Thats all! Sorry once again if ive offended, but its just the way it goes when you have somone like you vs. somone like me on a conspiracy forum lol Heads will roll!


Edited by moonchild420, 17 April 2009 - 02:21 PM.

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Aces High.




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